Threads – Bringing Domestic Violence in Faith Communities to Light

November is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, so this month’s Threads podcast brings difficult truths to light about domestic abuse in faith communities in Manitoba. Gloria Froese, a victim-survivor of childhood abuse, bravely shares her story – to inspire hope to break cycles of harm, empower others to come forward, and begin to heal.

Content warning: This episode discusses stories of childhood abuse. Please listen with caution; physical, emotional and sexual abuse are mentioned. Resources and support are available at AbuseResponseAndPrevention.ca. 

Episode transcript:

Kyle Rudge (00:02):

It begins with a single thread woven through other thread, and then another and another until we have a single piece of fabric, that fabric is stretched, cut and stitched together with another, just like it. This process is repeated over and over and over until we have a beautiful tapestry that all began with a single thread. Welcome to MCC Threads, where we look closely at how our stories in Manitoba weave together with the stories of MCC and its partners around the world.

Gloria Froese (00:51):

As difficult as it is to talk about these things, if we do not bring these things out into the light, they continue to have greater power and more harm comes to, to children, to women, occasionally, to men, to boys if we don't speak about these things.

Kyle Rudge (01:08):

This month's episode of threads deals with some very difficult topics and comes with a content warning. November is domestic violence awareness month, and we're bringing stories to light for us to be aware of the realities that exist in Manitoba, the work that's being done to help and to heal and to open much needed conversations in our communities and in our churches. In this episode, we discuss stories of childhood abuse, physical, emotional, and sexual abuse are all mentioned within the context of a home and church in Manitoba. Please listen with caution if these topics would cause yourself or one you're listening with to be triggered or activated.

Val Hiebert (01:48):

My name is Val Hiebert, and I work with MCC's Abuse Response and Prevention Program, which means that we respond to situations of abuse, but we also do educational work in hopes of reducing and preventing abuse. I typically work together with Jamie Friesen. She's on parental leave at the moment.

Kyle Rudge (02:05):

Val and I met with someone over Zoom to discuss their story of childhood abuse. Due to the personal depth of the topic, Val did much of the heavy lifting while I sat back and listened.

Val Hiebert (02:15):

The guest we have today is Gloria Froese. Gloria and her husband Chad, live in Winnipeg, and they have a couple of children. She's a graduate of Providence University, and Gloria is also a victim-survivor of some pretty awful stuff that happened during her childhood and young adulthood.

Kyle Rudge (02:36):

Small note, the term victim-survivor is an intentional and an important one to call. One simply a victim of abuse lacks the nature of resilience, of strength rebuilding and hope that is found within the word survivor. But calling someone only a survivor can also lack the depth and reality of their past. As such, we're using the term victim-survivor.

Val Hiebert (02:57):

Gloria, I'm just really glad that you're willing to sit with me and have this conversation, so thank you very much for that.

Gloria Froese (03:06):

Well, thanks for inviting me.

Val Hiebert (03:07):

Can you just give our listeners a bit of a context for the kinds of things that happened to you in your childhood?

Gloria Froese (03:14):

I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult from the time that I was 10 till I was 18. So yeah, really those influential years and the cult was based on a lot of violence. The movement itself got going in the 1980s and the people it attracted tended to be very broken. Yeah, very hurt people with a lot of rage, a lot of narcissistic behavior and they took this out on their children. And so violence was kind of right from the beginning. We were beaten with sticks, with belts, with all kinds of different implements, and the parents and the ministry kind of egged each other on with that. And parents were always on the lookout for implements that would cause maximum pain, but leave minimum bruising and a two inch wide leather belt did that quite nicely. Yeah, so it was just a lot of violence and spanking. They wouldn't ever have called it beating. They said they were spanking us with love, but anytime that we broke any sort of rule or were disobedient in any way, or spoke up in a way we weren't supposed to, or in the case of babies cried when they weren't supposed to, like during church services, and this started right from infant hood on, they would spank babies or spank infants with them, those little wooden dowels, and they would purposely avoid the diaper area where they knew that it would be sheltered and aim for the legs or other areas where they knew that they could hit them better. And I still have memories of children screaming on the campground as their parents would drag them off and beat them. And yeah, it was pretty gruesome altogether. So yeah, there was that, and then there was also a lot of emotional and mental violence that was done to children. A lot of shaming and accusing you of having, yeah malicious intent basically. And it was often, for me, it was combined. I would get the spankings and the emotional stuff together until they broke me. Although I was a remarkably stubborn child, <laugh>, so it was a little bit hard to break. But yeah, so that was very much the culture. So from beating babies to beating young people who didn't want to get saved and come under and do what they needed to do, there was some young men that they beat until they passed out and then finally gave in.

Val Hiebert (05:50):

And I know sometimes you've talked to me about how they don't get child and family services involved.

Gloria Froese (05:57):

Because we've been groomed from a young age to think that child and family services is an evil organization. Multifaceted, really. I think we get so attached to the parents and we're told that this is out of love that's constantly pushed. They're doing this because they love us. It hurts us more than it hurts you. And there's also this deep sense of protectiveness of the church itself that you don't speak bad about the church even when you leave, because I think that's, it's become more since I left. But if you speak out against them, then you've basically relegated yourself to the lowest level of hell. There's no hope for you after that. You can maybe come back if you don't speak against the church, but once you do, they pretty much disown you. There's that. But then there's also the internalizing that you deserved this. You were a bad child. You had this coming. We were coached from young on how to deal with child and family services because it was inevitable that they would be called, 'cause the abuse is so clear, almost everybody can see it. And so the few times that they would come, yeah, we were coached on how to interact and so children will deny it. And I've talked to people from child and family services from other locations who have tried to talk to these children, try to help them, and the children will not talk. They'll deny that anything has happened to them.

Val Hiebert (07:15):

Outside of that community. To whom did you first actually reveal any real information about what was happening to you?

Gloria Froese (07:23):

I don't even remember when I first did. I think it would've been in my young adulthood, probably after I left and started talking about church experiences in general. Probably a trusted stranger. Actually, it might've been extended family as well. I'm not sure how open I was to them at first with it. I might've tried to maybe shelter my parents to some extent.

Val Hiebert (07:45):

And I'm asking that question because what we know from the research, and I know this is part of your own story, is that when a child or an adult reveals abuse, and they often do it to, it's like a trusted stranger. So not a total stranger, but not a close family member or friend, because you don't, it's risky and it's scary. The importance of that person listening deeply and believing is absolutely crucial to the next steps in that person's journey. If they are disbelieved or questioned in that most vulnerable of moments it often just sends them backwards. And many of them don't even try again.

Gloria Froese (08:33):

Yeah. I was, I got some, I was lucky enough to get some really good people in my life in the early days in the community. There was, yeah, acquaintances or people that I came across in the early days, and I started opening up about the different experiences and talking. I don't know specifically how much about the spanking part itself, but I know that I was very validated and very listened to and loved and supported and yeah. So I think I would've felt safe enough, but I think I also had this instinctual sense of knowing I couldn't just talk to anybody about it. At that point, the abuse was on so many different levels. So much to unpack. And I remember in the early stages of therapy, as everything was coming out and I was falling apart, and I just remember crying nonstop, sometimes my body would just start sobbing and I couldn't stop it. And my therapist said to make myself a safe little space, have something that was pleasant memories from my childhood. And so when that would hit that I could be there with that and center myself. So I had a little doll that I'd had ever since I was four, and that she had been my safety, my security blanket basically. And so I would go and hold her and then just, yeah, let it all out. And in the early days, it was a lot of apologizing to young Gloria. I'm sorry that I couldn't protect you. Oh boy. <Laugh> still emotional to talk about, but yeah, I'm sorry that I couldn't, yeah get you away from that situation. And I knew that there was nothing I could do, but it's just, I don't know, almost telling myself that if I could do differently now, I would.

Val Hiebert (10:14):

Yeah, okay.

Gloria Froese (10:16):

But yeah, so and so some of that, yeah, just going, I don't know, it's hard to put into words really.

Val Hiebert (10:24):

And are you okay to talk about some of the impacts on your physical health?

Gloria Froese (10:29):

Yeah, it's, so I've been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, and pretty much all the doctors and psychologists that have been involved agree that it is because of the childhood that I had, just the constant trauma. When I look back at it, I was in a state of fight or flight pretty much my entire youth. And I still have memories of the belt was housed in our vacuum closet in the house, and the closet had a squeak when you open the door. And so I'd know I was getting in trouble and I would hear the squeak of that door, and it was just a trauma response to that every time because I knew what was coming and yeah. So just always, and again, those torture sessions were, yeah, I don't think I've talked about exactly how relentless they were, because it would be, again, a two inch leather belt falling on my body. And it was supposed to ideally only fall on the buttocks, but I would squirm because of the pain, and it would just keep on landing wherever it landed. So as I squirmed to try to get away from it, it would go up my back, down my legs. And then I would sometimes get a break where I was then berated and told what a terrible person I was and shamed and guilted and pressured. And then if I still didn't give in adequately, then the beatings would commence. And so it could be several hours of this just over and over again. So yeah, it's took me a while, it was after I got married that my body started falling apart. And it's always funny to say that because it makes it sound like it's the marriage's fault but it's because I was finally safe and in a place where I could be safe and be myself. And then the body just let go. Yeah. And it would take a while before I got the diagnosis. But yeah, it's been permanent effects. And so yeah, I don't think people realize enough just how deeply this can impact children into their adulthood.

Kyle Rudge (12:31):

In the interview, Val talked about how healing doesn't happen in the dark. And while these things can and frankly should be hard to talk about, it's important to ensure that we do take the time to care, to listen, and to help. One way we can is on Wednesday, November 13th, Val will be leading a one day educational seminar called Domestic Violence: Deep Cultural Norms that Affect the Church, at Canadian Mennonite University. It's designed for pastors and organizational leaders looking to deepen their understanding of how cultural norms impact domestic violence. The cost is $30 and includes snacks and lunch served by the Mennonite Church of Manitoba. For more information and to register, visit the events section at mcc.org/manitoba. MCC Threads is produced by KR Words with story assistance from Jessica Burtick. Thank you to Gloria for your honest and raw sharing of your story, and Val, for helping to make the interview a safe place to share and facilitating that interview. After Gloria had stepped away from our discussion, I asked Val if there was hope. Hope for those who have been abused, hope for those that did the abusing and hope for the darkness that we witnessed. I'll leave her response as the final words.

Val Hiebert (13:43):

I mean, if you're asking me, yeah, I choose hope. I choose hope, otherwise I wouldn't do the work. Why would I bother? We see lots of people like Gloria who do the hard work, and then in the process of doing the hard work, do some heavy lifting for other people too. It takes a village, and so we need to wake up our village to the reality of how much this is actually happening inside families of faith and Christian churches and recognize that there's hard work for us to do, but it's work that we do need to do. Yeah, I see some really good outcomes, but not without lots of work and not without lots of support, but those are things that the rest of the community can enable and facilitate if we're willing to face the reality that these things are happening.

Kyle Rudge (14:32):

I'm Kyle Rudge, and this is MCC Threads.